ScrollFans

Actually S1eepy its more using your own tactic against you, as rather than the debate being on my terms its being done on yours as it makes it harder for people to then constantly branch the debate out further or drag it into other areas, its the "I'll come to you approach" rather than dictating the direction of the argument and have it pulled other ways.

You see the issue with saying I'm using fear as an example is that the fear has been proved to have a basis in reality many times over with plenty of other games which allowed farming of some kind. The fear has a justification to it while the fear of rules and regulations often isn't with the rules at most creating a minor inconvenience to people with many being ok with them when they understand the reasoning behind it.

Will and over abundant market harm the game ? Sure it will as rare scrolls will be worthless if its too abundant, they will have no value just like money in a hyper inflated market. 

Re-entering the crazy now so feel free to skip.

you imply that magic is everything that cannot be explained empirically by science as it is a force acting upon an energy based world and yet science is itself explaining how many of these forces are created through Neuroscience, all to understand how the brain functions and how energy as such is interacting in different ways and that the different forms of energy are in reality wavelengths and work on Resonance which is at its core energy itself.

I get the idea about the line of impossibility but for many people while its perfectly possible it could raid Frogs in central london tomorrow the probability is pretty low so low it tends to 0 so much that many consider it impossible as impossible is in itself perspective based. this is due to the fact physics teaches that at any moment anything could happen such as a 10 ton Rhino appearing at the top of the Effiel tower. The issue is that is not probable to happen its so improbable that the perception of it being impossible was created as the line.

you see the issue with claiming to be a wizard is playing to the concept of magic while a Magician will openly say its an illusion and  while he won't reveal the additional information people are generally in no doubt that there is additional information unlike someone claiming to have mystical powers which often suggests far ulterior motives to using the information in such a way to claim they are magic.

If you've drawn one of your power cards and its quite early game so say its a 7 mana cost and you have 3. What do you do ?

I've never really settled on what I should do.

1) Hang onto it for later in the game but then lose out on the potential attack power of trading for scrolls and being able to play a 1 and a 2 mana creature.

2) Sacrifice it for something that can be played now or resources knowing it could come round again later when I can use it right away.

Quote from liberty_caps »

The fear that a new rule brought in will impact everyone when the reality is if done right maybe 1% of people would even notice the rule in effect in normal play.

If 1% of players are affected by a nonsense rule then that is 1% too many in my opinion. (And where do you come up with that number? I hate when people just make up statistics)

Here's the bottom line: A gold cap will not stop farming. It won't even slow it down. Period.

I understand your intentions are good but you fail to recognize the potential negative consequences of what you want to implement.

yeh the issue is farming could impact 100% of people but reducing the amount of people wanting to trade and the overall value of any scrolls.

Rare scrolls essentially wouldn't be rare anymore.

Also 1% is there's about 200 registered players and about 2 are online enough to be able to hit that a cap of 360 let alone any higher amount.

Set right the gold cap wouldn't have negative consequences as the only issue would be hitting it and if it were set at 6 hours constant play constant wins a day then it would be barely noticed by most people, heck set it to 12 hours constant wins and I doubt anyone other than people using bots would really notice it as I doubt many people have 12 hours every day to play scrolls, not constantly with constant winning too.

If we take the bot farming rate of 20 gold approximate every 15 minutes (which is still not that realistic) it means you could limit gold at 600 and already that's over 6 hours play farming the bots

Actually S1eepy there is work on AI bots that learn to an extent on their own. There has been for a while from an english made robot that was taught the basics and though basic programs had to extract and try to learn basic phrases to the more complex ones in Japanese universities which are learning object recognition and being able to via internet searching the item given too them to try and understand what it is. OK its very basic but it is learning of a kind.

The issue with scrolls is there are only so many possible combinations and as chess playing computers exist then a scrolls playing bot is possible especially considering at the world net games this year in the bot contest the bots in the match received a 53% real player rating vs the humans who only got 47%. (Basically its a free for all where the humans are given a gun that they can use to vote if they think the opponent is a bot or human, there no coms or voice chat so its purely on in game actions). This is the first year the bots have received more votes for being human than the humans.

Bots are a lot of work but again the evolution of modder groups and the likes of aimjunkies has brought a new kind who essentially create and sell their mods and people will buy them. So while a bot is a lot of work people are managing to earn from it by selling those bots on.

The issue is you're using fear just as much and actually in a less justified way. You're using the fear of rules and restrictions. The fear that a new rule brought in will impact everyone when the reality is if done right maybe 1% of people would even notice the rule in effect in normal play.

You may have thought it out to a million different ends but unfortunately I've seen these kind of things play out and without action early on it takes far more work and effort later to recover and repair from it.

A cap like this wouldn't be some huge undertaking it would be what 1 days coding to have it set up. Why object to this when down the line it could be weeks of coding required to rebalance everything and months of research to rebalance the games ranking systems all because this wasn't put in and it did go wrong.

Again its the global warming debate.

If we act now and nothing happens it will have cost this much

If we don't act now and it does happen the cost exponentially increases.

If nothing happens you've used far less up than if something did happen.

The difference with the patriot act is its almost the opposite.

Using a lot more resources incase something did happen

If something did happen it would require less resources to sort out though public confidence in the government would be hit.

Its fair to say while you may be a wizard you're arguing with a member of the magic circle here lol (No seriously I am a registered member).

So to now fight you using your own logical construct here and fight in this construct with its own rules and where magic is more than mere slide of hand illusion which is what you've suggested the constructs rules are.

You take the ground from under someone's feet, the a wizard would fly.

Bringing a stick to a gun fight, strange as any wizard would know  a wand beats your gun or should I say banana ?

Ok I think that was enough fighting in the contruct

Why develop a counter measure ?

Again its time now vs time later.

Economists will tell you that initial small investment will save large investments later according to the standard economic model. The best example is why people invest in small businesses as if they take off then to invest down the line would cost them far far more.

Part of the issue being Liberty is when a match making system is put in if someone has been running bot scrolls if that play time isn't recorded and used in match making, only the time spent playing match made matches then they would have an advantage. Though a skilled based one would sort this out.

The argument for this could be looked at as the same as global warming.

If you do this and nothing happens then nothing much is lost. ok it will cause a couple of issues for some people but not hugely long term.

If you don't and something does happen then the damage might be irreversible or take a lot of time and effort to get back.

The fact they haven't simply cut Minecraft into parts are released Minecraft 2.0 out of the new stuff suggests otherwise as they could have just cut it before they brought in the ender dragon then released Minecraft 2 as including all the adventure stuff, enchanting and bosses.

Calling a person who plays till they die weak for dieing is pretty bad considering the argument being put forward is a human could do what a bot could anyway when its pretty evident most people who have played like is being suggested have wound up dead or passing out

Quote from liberty_caps »

If there is a gold cap, I am going to hit it the cap and stop playing until i can gain gold again. That's the bottom line. Why on earth would the dev's want to encourage players to stop playing their game for any reason?

I really don't care how fast or slow a player obtains their gold and scrolls.  In the end, if you put enough time in you will get all the gold and scrolls you need.  The players with the most skill will always rise to the top.

The issue will be that bots / scripts will be able to do it far quicker than any player humanly can.

Also maybe ethics you know as I'm pretty sure Mojang don't want to encourage people into potentially lethal insanely long spells playing such as the Diablo 3 incident etc

Also on the real money thing, it depends how well it sells etc as if it could cover and a bit more than there would be no need.

Quote from liberty_caps »

I agree with S1eepy.  A gold cap on this game is horrible idea.  The advantage of having lots of gold and all the scrolls in the game is marginal at best.  Skill and luck are what the good players really need. Also, I don't see anything wrong with having lots of gold and all the scrolls, and the easier it is to obtain mass amounts of gold and scrolls the better the game will be in my humble opinion.

But will it help community wise with things such as trading, I mean at present a rare is and a few uncommons which have use are all that are getting traded about. When more people start playing at present it would create more trading etc unless people started using bots / scripts to farm a lot in which case it could negatively impact it.

Also a gold cap high enough would mean short of playing scrolls 8 hours a day or more it wouldn't impact people if it were set at the right level

Quote from liberty_caps »

I think the gold rewards for a match should be relative to the length of the match, that way no matter who wins or loses you are compensated for your time.

@dwavenhobble You surrendered matches because you thought or assumed you would lose and you assumed it would be 45 minutes? Why even play the game at all? I go into matches thinking I am going to win, and win as fast as possible.

no I've played enough matches to know when its going to be a long match where I slowly lose rather than a match where I can win. If each turn I'm being slowly chipped down and I know I have no card that's going to stop it I can normally tell it would just be a long drawn out match of about 45 minutes which I'd lose

Quote from liberty_caps »

I think the Jarl is fine.  Growth already has plenty of powerful cards, who cares if the Jarl isn't that powerful by itself?

I think the implication is when things are rebalanced and we se something like chain lightening going to growth, god hand going to order and quake going back to energy that growth won't have a really powerful creature on the level of Iron golem or Knight scholar (Because Knight scholar is alot more powerful than you think with his draw ability)